Talk:Filamented Hold
Both Cold Wave and Filamented Hold can be learned at the same camp. Go to the uncapped tower in Beaucedine Glacier (F-7) and enter Pso'Xja. Camp at the end of the hallway prior to going thru the doorway, liz and diremites do not agro here but snowball will. There are 2 of each mobs here and they use the spells often. Gropitou 23:06, October 1, 2009 (UTC) Are we sure this actually gives 25% slow when we cast it? I know when a Diremite uses it, it does. But when Mamool Ja BLUs cast it, it doesn't even overwrite Refueling, let alone Haste. And Mamool Ja BLU spells tend to work the same way as ours (Pollen only heals for 35 HP, Feather Tickle only lowers your TP a little bit instead of lowering to 0, etc.). I'm afraid that this spell may only give a 10% Slow. >.<; --Kyrial 16:52, 23 August 2007 (CDT) Demons use a skill that has 50% slow yet it wont overwrite refueling either. so i don't think percentage matters all that much. Klutzz 22:32, 14 October 2008 (UTC) I can confirm that the Diremite version of this will overwrite Haste, and must be erased before Haste can be recasted. There are many differences between monster versions and blu versions of the same spells, but the spell pages just seems to list the blu stuff - is there a template for adding in monster-only effects? Calif 14:23, April 30, 2010 (UTC) I will try to test this in PVP with someone else (recast timers should give a good idea), but if you test this spell on an enemy with Haste or another Slow effect already in place, you'll see that Filamented Hold doesn't overwrite any effect, but is overwritten by all others, not unlike most of BLU's support spells. Zephyr Mantle (4 blink shadows) does not overwrite, but is overwritten by Blink. Diamondhide (200 damage Stoneskin) does not overwrite, but is overwritten by Earthen Ward and Stoneskin, regardless of potency. Yawn (light-Sleepga II equivalent) does not overwrite, but is overwritten by Sleep I. At least Triumphant Roar stacks with ATK buffs. Unfortunately, SE really screwed over BLU as a support job by making virtually all Blue Magic buffs/debuffs overwritten by White and Black Magic. --Eremes 15:22, April 30, 2010 (UTC) Potency Testing Ok, so I decided to go into Brenner with a WHM mule to see how this spell fared. As far as I know, Brenner doesn't have the same restrictions as Ballista and Conflict, so hopefully these tests are relatively accurate. The Blue Mage in question had 292 skill, did not use skill gear. The WHM had 224 enfeebling magic, no skill gear. No Haste or Fast Cast gear/traits were used: BLU75/NIN(73MND) vs WHM75/SMN(73MND) = Stoneskin(30 second recast) upped to 36 seconds BLU(58MND) vs WHM(106MND) = upped to 34 seconds BLU(110MND) vs WHM(73MND) = upped to 36 seconds BLU(137MND) vs WHM(67MND) = upped to 36 seconds Note: The Resist Slow trait from /SMN only affects direct resistance and duration, not potency. Tests with /WAR produced the same results. I could get more MND with food and better gear, but I believe there's no need for these tests. Given a recast of 36 seconds on a spell with a 30 second recast, we can do some simple algebra to solve for the Slow percentage: New Recast = floor( Cast * floor(( 1-Haste * Recast )*10)/10 ) (taken from Recast Time) 36 seconds = floor( [1-0(no Fast Cast present)] *floor(( [1-(-X(Slow is equivalent to negative Haste))*30(Stoneskin recast))*10/10) X = .20 As you can see, the variance here is relatively minimal; a difference of 48MND between the caster and the target gave approximately 13% Slow, reducing potency by approximately 7% below its presumable cap. By comparison, and for the same MND difference (WHM@64,BLU@112), Slow upped the recast of Utsusemi by barely over 1 second, effectively offering 3%+ Slow, though for an easily unresisted duration of 3 minutes, without a staff or magic accuracy gear. Whether the WHM's low enfeebling skill affected potency, I can't say. It appears that Filamented Hold caps at 20%, and even though that's more than 15% Haste, or a poor Slow, these two effects will overwrite it. BLU/WHM matching MND against WHM/WAR can land Filamented Hold for full potency, overwrite it with Slow from support job (with difficulty), and then be unable to overwrite Slow with Filamented Hold again... Even the aforementioned-Slow effect of less than 10% will still overwrite Refueling, and Refueling will not overwrite the Slow effect. Like most, if not all, Blue Magic buffs/debuffs, White/Black/Ninjutsu equivalents overwrite and are not overwritten by them, even when the Blue Magic equivalent is actually superior; what truly undercuts the utility of this spell is not that its potency is poor, but rather that it is overwritten by everything. Humorously enough, Sprout Smack, which gives approximately a 10% Slow effect, is not overwritten by Filamented Hold, but once again is overwritten by a gimp Slow... Good job, SE. :( It seems as though BLU need only match the target in MND (on an Even Match target, at least) to have the spell's potency cap, leaving the rest of gear to Magic Accuracy to extend the duration of the spell. It's ideal for soloing applications, when dealing with a mass of slept mobs (such as Dynamis and Einherjar) and instances in which no RDM or well-equipped WHM or SCH is present. Additionally, it gives Clear Mind. Feel free to do further testing and to check my math; the data is greatly welcome. --Eremes 18:48, April 30, 2010 (UTC) Would like to see some basic testing done not in Brenner, as PvP often nerfs spells/abilities/weapon skills. Tagging verification till this is done. Kegsay 13:41, July 9, 2010 (UTC)